Why do you support Brexit? Why not just argue for a reformed EU?
We’ve been a member of the European Union since 1973 and it’s not a democratic institution. It was set up as much for an economic basis as a democratic basis and what has stopped war has been Nato – not the European Union. It may use these terms about being in favour of democracy but it’s not democratic. The only body that has the right to introduce a new law or oppose an old law is the European Commission, which has no democratic accountability at all. It is appointed, unelected, and remains in office until it completes its terms.
So the suggestion that the EU is a fundamentally democratic body is one I would refute and I would also refute that it’s kept the peace. I think that has been Nato and, crucially, the very large American involvement in our affairs that’s provided most of the funding of Nato in the post-war period – the whole of the life of Nato.
Surely one of the ways to counter the democratic deficit is for the electorate to be better educated about the European Union, which might increase voter turnout?
I think that’s a very dangerous point that you make. It’s not reasonable to say that it is the electorate’s fault that they have not made the body democratic. I think it’s more accurate to say that the body is not fundamentally democratic so the electorate quite sensibly don’t bother. They know that the European Parliament is not a serious parliament; it’s not their fault for not engaging. They don’t engage because they don’t feel it worthwhile and they know the EU is fundamentally undemocratic.
Are you worried that Brexit will increase social and economic inequality in this country?
Oh no, quite the reverse. The Chancellor has been making his figures up. The Treasury select committee has pointed out that in his introduction to the Treasury’s support, on the economic consequences of leaving the EU, he made a statement of what was in the report which was wrong.
So I wouldn’t rely on the Chancellor: he is a propagandist for remain rather than an impartial figure. But Lord Rose, the leader of the remain campaign, said that the wages of the poorest would go up if we left the European Union. So I think there are real opportunities for poorer people in this country to get better wages and also to have lower costs. For example, VAT on fuel could be reduced. That’s one of the savings we could make. That would be disproportionately beneficial to the poorest in society who pay a larger part on their household budget in energy.
I don’t accept that we will have a recession anyway. It’s a real opportunity to grow the economy rather than be held back.
Does it bother you that the hierarchy – and, reading between the lines, the Pope himself – supports Britain’s EU membership?
I’m not going to read between the lines on the Holy Father’s views. The Holy Father can issue all sorts of documents setting out the views of the Church and the Church hasn’t done that. There is no authoritative dogmatic view from the Church and the cardinals have both said it was their private view [Cardinal Nichols and Cardinal Murphy-O’Connor favour remaining].
I think it’s important to remember that the EU funds abortions in Africa, so people who are Catholic who want to support the EU should bear in mind that it’s actually an organisation that goes against the teaching of the Church. It was clearly a more Christian and Catholic organisation when it was founded and I think it’s now a godless institution. I think that is true. I don’t think its objective is influenced by Christianity any more. But that’s not my fundamental objection to the EU. My fundamental objection to it is that it’s undemocratic.
Wouldn’t UK Catholics be better in the EU with other Catholic countries rather than living as a minority in the UK?
No. The EU is actively secular. The EU is promoting abortion. I don’t see how this can be at all comfortable for Catholics. It’s arguably material cooperation in mortal sin supporting the European Union.
You’d go as far as to say that?
It confiscates money from the UK and spends money on abortion in Africa. I think Catholics should be very concerned about that.
So, in summary, why should we vote leave?
Fundamentally it’s about control. Does your vote change how you are governed? If you vote somebody out, can the laws be changed? Under the EU that is not true. June 23 is a fundamental opportunity for people to decide: is their country Europe or is it the United Kingdom? Is it Europe governed by a failing bureaucracy and economically disastrous, or is it a UK governed by their own votes, their own liberty and their own democracy?
This is an edited version of an interview with Jacob Rees-Mogg, Conservative MP for North East Somerset, by our associate editor Madeleine Teahan. You can listen to the full interview at catholicherald.co.uk
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